Appendix II - Minutes and Notes from the Workshop
These notes are organized according to each issue identified.
Integrated Plant Management
Art Roybal: Have we taken an integrated approach? It is a management approach on the ecosystem and changing the condition with multiple methods of attack. We have used grass carp, chemicals, and physical control, but sometimes this doesn’t work. Maybe we should use different methods of control at the same time.
Jess Van Dyke: We need applied research on grass carp combined with low rates with of herbicides. Compare costs, efficacy, and containment.
Brian Nelson: The major question we are facing is: How do you manage hydrilla with contact herbicide if you loose sonar?
Dean Barber: We can manage with Grass Carp and herbicide. We need to look at water shed management with this fish. We have been too conservative with research and stocking in large scale systems.
Terry Sullivan: We need to look at an integrated approach. Look at whole lake approach with sonar, contact herbicide, and grass carp.
Jeff Schardt: DEP needs to look at its policy for copper use. Look at its inside policy to integrated approach. Research on better ways to get native plants in the system if we are getting hydrilla out of systems. What are the best native plants to plant in the system? Talk at the beginning of Kiss restructuring…Hatchineha and Kissimmee structure that is missing…..is it cost keeping that out…..could we get coordinated funding to get that structure in place. Also develop a habitat drawdown schedule in that plan….maybe we can rotate storage of water to help with hydrilla control.
Dave Eggman: We need to have management plans based on specific lake needs. Need to get to not only the uses but have a plan on each of the lakes.
Bob Pace: There needs to be flexibility with climactic changes (in case of wet winter or hurricane), and flexibility with funding (able to move money from one project or carry over from one year to next).
Steve Rockwood: For water fowl species, hydrilla is a beneficial plant. Presence of hydrilla can mitigate the loss of habitat for water fowl. Should we set lake by lake priorities based on the need of plants for waterfowl? Maybe treat after the migration waterfowl.
Bill Haller: We don’t need to allow high levels of hydrilla in lakes because it will happen without us trying. We need more tools to control hydrilla. The pressure of stocking carp is going to rapidly increase, and we need to have more tools to utilize with grass carp to control hydrilla.
Bill Johnson: If you aren’t able to maintain high enough concentration of herbicide at every sprig of hydrilla, then the use of herbicide is not effective.
Dave Eggman: We stocked carp in lakes in the 80’s at very high density, so we backed off with sonar. Then we lost sonar’s effectiveness, so we have picked back up on carp in public lakes. We will probably try and increase. We have an issue group next week to address how to handle carp in lakes, which will include such issues as: where do we put barriers, who will maintain them.
Brian Nelson: There is a lot of integration of control methods on the smaller lakes, it is just not on the big lakes.
Dean Jones (Polk): As we move forward from here, please don’t forget about the people doing the spraying. Think about the men putting it out….resources of people putting it out. Recourses/time allocation to application feasibility.
Patrick Cooney: Would you be stretching yourselves too thin both financially and in personnel by creating lake by lake management goals that would need to be altered frequently, depending on user wants and needs? Won’t it just end up with people fighting for the same limited resources of money and personnel to carry out the management plan on one lake just to fail in another? It seems like a statewide goal is more attainable than specific lake by lake goals with the current resources available.
Jeff Schardt: What is integrated plant management? What are you going to tell me that I don’t know? We have used every tool we have to control, and I can’t do it. So you spend a lot of time telling me to do it. You won’t help me. Don’t tell me to integrate. Tell me how to integrate. We need the focus on refining the methods of what we already have. Tell me how it works and when it works and when it doesn’t and why. This doesn’t help me with the big five. I won’t be able to use grass carp on the those lakes. The fish will just escape. I need management techniques for these big 5 lakes. Kissimmee chain of lakes and Istokpoga. We walked away from walk in water….but still spend over million dollars on contact.
Grass Carp
Jess Van Dyke: We need applied research on grass carp: low rates of carp with low rates of herbicides. Compare costs, efficacy, and containment.
Dean Barber: We can manage with Grass Carp and herbicide—need to look at water shed management with this fish. We have been too conservative with research and stocking in large-scale system.
Jeff Schardt: There has been discussion about carp in lakes. If we think about putting carp in big lakes, we need barriers. Whose responsibility is it to build, establish, and maintain electric barrier?
Dave Eggman: Look at barrier stuff when you look at research for carp. I know how to stock fish….but we need barrier design.
Water Level Regulations
Jeff Schardt: Big 5 lakes (Kissimmee Chain and Lake Istokpoga): We need research to determine hydrilla levels on the impact of flood control. This is the most important thing. Review policies on water level lowering…we need to do something now for this. COE and WMD looking at the schedules for hydrilla control. Temporary deviations. We also need to revise the way the temporary deviations are put into place. We need all agencies at the table at the start. We need money—especially from the federal level. If we can’t get the water level down….can the feds make up the $ from the different water levels.
Wayne Corbin: The geographical location of lakes undergoing drawdowns for hydrilla control concern the wildlife…the locations next to that are then limited because wildlife is disturbed. We need to figure out ways to rotate drawdowns.
Steve Miller: Snail Kites…the real issue is snail kites. Gave a history of snail kites. Kiss and Toho chain is key to snail kites…it is a non viable population. Wants to drawdown his area but put it off last year because of Toho. Now needs to drawdown kiss …..but there is talk about Toho getting drawn down again….we need kiss down. Need to take a region wide perspective when doing water level drawdowns and not just a lake system.
Steve Miller: Structure integrity—what distance to keep…Mike N: need control research of resistance/friction of the mass with water flow is this a problem or is the problem only if the mass breaks free. How far in front of structure do we need to control?
Adam Stuart: Temporary water level deviations can be used on a yearly basis until 2008 on the Kissimmee chain. We need to be talking earlier. Once the sonar is in the water, is it better to manage for a certain level and try to keep this. Or do we not do any discharges and just realize we will have more water if it rains. Balancing contact time with water levels….is it better for contact time (water levels) or flow?
Herbicides
Ed Harris: More research for herb development. Adding aquatic labels. Either with state university level. Label extensions.
Matt Phillips: We are increasing concentration of sonar to combat resistant hydrilla—but, we don’t have a good handle on the susceptibility of native plants. Knot grass is affected at 20 ppb…..but what about lilies? We are seeing damage and loss of native plants. More research to find susceptibility of native plants to increased sonar levels. Grass carp may be a good alternative if we have to use high levels of sonar which will kill everything—we are losing many stands of native plants. Needs the research quickly.
Dave Eggman: We need research (collect data) in field to determine selectivity
Dean Barber: We need another herbicide product. We need to stimulate aquatic interest via a 3rd party. It is necessary to have multiple site inhibitors or multiple modes of actions (MOA). If this is a significant problem. They are doing this on terrestrial side.
Bill Haller: We won’t find a herbicide with multiple MOA. We will need to register many herbicides with different MOAs.
Vicki Pontius: Research issue—agriculture and non target impact of sonar.
Mike Netherland. Should we distinguish hyd and hyd tolerant sonar when developing a plan?
Mike Allen: Well if you have hyd and use sonar you have hyd tolerant sonar type.
Mike Netherland: It hasn’t happened everywhere….if it is a new infestation, we might be able to control.
Brian Nelson: Hydrilla tolerant to sonar is a big issue because you can’t meet goals of minimum feasible levels.
Bill Haller: The problem is that everyone is talking about plans of controlling hydrilla, but we don’t have the tools to manage hydrilla in some lakes. There are some lakes we can’t buy enough sonar to control hydrilla. What about contact herbicide….we don’t have enough $.
Wayne Corbin: pleading/afraid to get the encourage the scientist/nasty chemical groups to get a new compound—need a letter of concern addressed.
Mike Netherland: we already did a search—get rid of 90% of them. We have found about 4 or 5 compounds. But each will create resistance….how do we use these compounds to delay the resistance….it will happen but you can get a few more years. In terms of managing susceptible hydrilla, we can allow these plants to expand, as it is much easier to control a susceptible lake with topped out hyd. We should use these treatments sparingly and should never treat back to back with susceptible hyd. But tolerant hyd…..spend $ on this while it is low.
Dean Jones: Reviewing and considering more increase of copper uses.
Brian Nelson: Haller painted a pessimistic picture about getting a new herbicide regulated…getting short-term solutions. And if we get one it will be short lived also.
Wildlife Fisheries Management
Jeff Schardt: Research has issues of drawdown due to Apple Snails on the timing and the extent and the speed of the water. Also AVM is an issue—killing off eagles and coots in the Carolina. Also, with snail kites we’ve had suggestion of setting crews back from active snail kite nests….how far of a set back needed). Need an enforceable set back area for tour boats also.
Wayne Corbin: The geographical location of lakes undergoing drawdowns for hydrilla control concern the wildlife…the locations next to that are then limited because wildlife is disturbed. We need to figure out ways to rotate drawdowns.
Steve Miller: Snail Kites…the real issue is snail kites. Gave a history of snail kites. Kiss and Toho chain is key to snail kites…it is a non viable population. Wants to drawdown his area but put it off last year because of Toho. Now needs to drawdown kiss …..but there is talk about Toho getting drawn down again….we need kiss down. Need to take a region wide perspective when doing water level drawdowns and not just a lake system.
Bob Pace: Need to know how far from birds nest herbicide applicators must maintain.
Structure
Steve Miller: Structure integrity—what distance to keep…Mike N: need control research of resistance/friction of the mass with water flow is this a problem or is the problem only if the mass breaks free. How far in front of structure do we need to control?
Adam Stuart: Structural stability via mat of hydrilla or tussock? Need investigations. Even if the structural stability isn’t an issue what about clogging the gates. System performance also needs to look at. What is the effect of lake volume of stage if the lake is covered with hydrilla? May just be ballpark numbers….
Jeff Schardt. Need to have emergency procedures to get hydrilla off the structures.
Brian Nelson: How does hydrilla effect sedimentation rates?
Minimum Feasible Levels
Jeff Schardt: Needs agency commitment for invasive species management. Needs an agency policy because of the people changing within the agencies—once we get some understanding with a personnel then they move on and we have a new person. Coordinated response from agencies for hydrilla control (within and between).
Matt Phillips: What is more important controlling hyd or maintaining native plants? It depends on the lake. We need a more lake-by-lake decision process rather than blanket statement for state due to differences in user groups.
Dave Eggman: Need to have management plans based on specific lake needs. Need to get to not only the uses but have a plan on each of the lakes. Right now, if you have money and you find hydrilla, you control.
Jeff Schardt. We need to redefine the lowest feasible level of hydrilla ($, tech, and uses).
Mark Hoyer: Legislature set up for DEP to set the lowest feasible levels.
Jim Estes: Funding comes from DEP, so DEP sets priorities. They need to set purposes of hydrilla control when decisions are made to control. Set priorities based on objectives.
Jeff Schardt. Agrees with Jim, but feels that there needs to be concurrence from the FWC. It is necessary to get things worked out between FWC and DEP.
Chris Horton: If you keep the public involved in the decision of a lake by lake basis it will be easier to go to the legislature to get funding
Jeff Schardt: We don’t have time nor personnel to create a plan for every lake….so what we did is put a website out there…We got more help from the web page….we don’t have time to get together every year for 350 lakes with a staff of 2. some can take months. We are excited that BASS is coming to FL. Maybe BASS can help us in an effort to set individual plans for several lakes with angler interests.
Brian Nelson: Hydrilla tolerant to sonar is a big issue because you can’t meet goals of minimum feasible levels.
Biocontrol
Jeff Schardt: Renew bio control on hydrilla research.
Personnel
Joe Hinkle: More involved in sonar treatment—more help in our section. More staff—man power.
Jeff Schardt: We don’t have time nor personnel to create a plan for every lake….so what we did is put a website out there…We got more help from the web page….we don’t have time to get together every year for 350 lakes with a staff of 2. some can take months.
Public Involvement
Mike Bodle: This issue is beyond the general public…local agencies need to address public awareness to include the public and get their support because this topic is getting complicated. Public education needed at the agencies. Wants the public involved prior to crisis.
Chris: Anglers aren’t screaming in FL—we are fortunate. Bass anglers perspective want habitat/structure. Can help educate the public. Need public buy in…it is key to make sure the public is involved or well informed. In the name of progress….make sure the public is involved.
Water Quality
Steve Miller: Water quality issues—stick marsh. Pollution load reduction goals. It is a good water quality if you get rid of hyd you will loose our capabilities.